until you scan the RNA18 of yeast and fungus
and compare bacteria RNA16 and yeast/fungus together you cant come to conclusions on bacteria alone. This area just mystifies me??? Im still lost as to why more then half of these researchers dont look at the other thing living in us… changing or growing depending on who much bread yeast, beer , and foods with fungus contaminated on it ( corn , grains etc) even to much fruit
****tiger nuts have a good amount of aspergillus niger(FUNGUS) depending on crop
there good for you , but depending on the source
if THESE inuit tribes AND hazda HAVE the hidden key in gut make up and disease.. then why not scan there RNA18 for yeast/fungus as well. looking at there DIETs with out guessing there going to be lower in them
I will note some great benefit with RS — but you also see some with negatives to it.. in some —theres great info on the PLUS of RS on certain bacteria which help us.
I myself “John” argue the benefit of VLC/keto in role / process of re balancing your gut make up bacteria/yeast as a tool. not necessarily LONG term. to kill lower gut bugs in order to rebalance or start over re seeding — in order for better more beneficial gut bugs to take over from inulin, fiber and RS when you restart you health and healing.
You take someone very F*cked up with colitis or crohns / arthritis I dont see them healing fast from the start of RS …….been there
You take an avg person , or person with no problems and Im sure they ll take off with RS, etc
Many of these GI and arthritis drugs turn off the immune system, causing more problems. One has to take charge of there own health and not rely on the factory process of drugs — as they mask, inflammation etc– you still have heart disease , break down of joints -arthritis , etc you dont feel it —but the gut problem is still there.
eddie says:
and compare bacteria RNA16 and yeast/fungus together you cant come to conclusions on bacteria alone. This area just mystifies me??? Im still lost as to why more then half of these researchers dont look at the other thing living in us… changing or growing depending on who much bread yeast, beer , and foods with fungus contaminated on it ( corn , grains etc) even to much fruit
****tiger nuts have a good amount of aspergillus niger(FUNGUS) depending on crop
there good for you , but depending on the source
if THESE inuit tribes AND hazda HAVE the hidden key in gut make up and disease.. then why not scan there RNA18 for yeast/fungus as well. looking at there DIETs with out guessing there going to be lower in them
I will note some great benefit with RS — but you also see some with negatives to it.. in some —theres great info on the PLUS of RS on certain bacteria which help us.
I myself “John” argue the benefit of VLC/keto in role / process of re balancing your gut make up bacteria/yeast as a tool. not necessarily LONG term. to kill lower gut bugs in order to rebalance or start over re seeding — in order for better more beneficial gut bugs to take over from inulin, fiber and RS when you restart you health and healing.
You take someone very F*cked up with colitis or crohns / arthritis I dont see them healing fast from the start of RS …….been there
You take an avg person , or person with no problems and Im sure they ll take off with RS, etc
Many of these GI and arthritis drugs turn off the immune system, causing more problems. One has to take charge of there own health and not rely on the factory process of drugs — as they mask, inflammation etc– you still have heart disease , break down of joints -arthritis , etc you dont feel it —but the gut problem is still there.
eddie says:
Not going to argue that frank-in foods have caused the problem….
but I would add many vegans etc get these diseases that dont eat
frank-in foods…………or a healthy RS veggie, veggie ,fruit and meat
/chicken eaters .
many with , gluten problems get there fair share of RS, yet there still messed up. and having been thru this Carrying 4 genes HLA DQ2 —I say its the very fact there missing gut bugs( like you say) and eating lots of RS a food source feeding the over growth of yeast. Which appears to be there problem, ( since the HWP1 protein is similar to gluten. ) you have removed the similar problem(gluten) but not the food source of the problem….. as well replaced the bacteria missing which is the problem. The gut liner bacteria and missing bacteria to hammer the yeast
(There will never be a cure) because you cant get people to eat limited diets in limited phases.
To raise /lower bacteria and to phase in probiotics/bacteria– there to lazy and want a magic pill. The Future will be a phased treatment , of moving diets to switch /move /replace— bacteria
I had high HPHPA clostrida markers and yeast– I ate a good diet of no frankin foods from seeing what others in my family went thru and got…. (disease wise) happen to me too–I used them as an example of what not to do.
I can tell you 99 percent that amoxicillin(2 months from a dental precede) gave me, gluten intolerance( due to my gene make up 4 HLA DQ2 genes) as well milk intolerance because it killed my bacteria akkermansia (gut barrier) stripped away any good bacteria I had….and this drug raised my Cdiff type clostrida bacteria which then ate the RS .My yeast raised …growing to a large number that my immune system could not keep them in check == confusing gluten, soy and milk cassien as yeasts- since there proteins are similar. Eating these foods (which we eat daily in yogurt- potatos etc )milk, starch grains..only fed the Clostrida and yeast—which took me in a tail spin and a never ending circle of doctors and treatments –which they want to give more antibiotics.. to now treat the normal bad things that live in you —YOU NEED. Causing them to become more pathogenic
I say your DEAD on the frankin foods, and missing gut bugs…… which I say starts from over prescribing from dentists (dental procedures– and child physicians (parents feeding poor food) –and then add in a diet of frank in foods.
C diff is naturally in you and yes its kept in check… but you can acquire bad versions which are not normal– mainly floating in (CLEAN) hospitals with toxin B etc
I like the RS but I think its not as simple as giving someone RS to heal them and tossing in the fibers etc… REAL Foods..because I was eating that way–and I got sick as SHIT
And by NO MEANS an I SAYING go LC/KETO for a regular diet daily long term( this is crazy)
for me all my reading–I read all sides…..paleo.. genes, LC, FAT, RS — and try to put it all together— there all CORRECT in phases until you get balanced.
I also find it odd the HADZA and Italian study http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140415/ncomms4654/full/ncomms4654.html
the HADZA had lower butyrate, but we are so focused on raising it… now Im not sick mine is lower??time will tell I guess if I get cancer, hope not.
Prevotella abundance seen in the Hadza GM match a presence/absence scenario with SCFA concentrations that are enriched in propionate and reduced in butyrate with respect to Italians.
Dont get me wrong—–Im still drooling for your book and will buy it to support you $$$$ and what you do…..you do a great part pointing out things
its just this area is still very open….
eddie says:
many with , gluten problems get there fair share of RS, yet there still messed up. and having been thru this Carrying 4 genes HLA DQ2 —I say its the very fact there missing gut bugs( like you say) and eating lots of RS a food source feeding the over growth of yeast. Which appears to be there problem, ( since the HWP1 protein is similar to gluten. ) you have removed the similar problem(gluten) but not the food source of the problem….. as well replaced the bacteria missing which is the problem. The gut liner bacteria and missing bacteria to hammer the yeast
(There will never be a cure) because you cant get people to eat limited diets in limited phases.
To raise /lower bacteria and to phase in probiotics/bacteria– there to lazy and want a magic pill. The Future will be a phased treatment , of moving diets to switch /move /replace— bacteria
I had high HPHPA clostrida markers and yeast– I ate a good diet of no frankin foods from seeing what others in my family went thru and got…. (disease wise) happen to me too–I used them as an example of what not to do.
I can tell you 99 percent that amoxicillin(2 months from a dental precede) gave me, gluten intolerance( due to my gene make up 4 HLA DQ2 genes) as well milk intolerance because it killed my bacteria akkermansia (gut barrier) stripped away any good bacteria I had….and this drug raised my Cdiff type clostrida bacteria which then ate the RS .My yeast raised …growing to a large number that my immune system could not keep them in check == confusing gluten, soy and milk cassien as yeasts- since there proteins are similar. Eating these foods (which we eat daily in yogurt- potatos etc )milk, starch grains..only fed the Clostrida and yeast—which took me in a tail spin and a never ending circle of doctors and treatments –which they want to give more antibiotics.. to now treat the normal bad things that live in you —YOU NEED. Causing them to become more pathogenic
I say your DEAD on the frankin foods, and missing gut bugs…… which I say starts from over prescribing from dentists (dental procedures– and child physicians (parents feeding poor food) –and then add in a diet of frank in foods.
C diff is naturally in you and yes its kept in check… but you can acquire bad versions which are not normal– mainly floating in (CLEAN) hospitals with toxin B etc
I like the RS but I think its not as simple as giving someone RS to heal them and tossing in the fibers etc… REAL Foods..because I was eating that way–and I got sick as SHIT
And by NO MEANS an I SAYING go LC/KETO for a regular diet daily long term( this is crazy)
for me all my reading–I read all sides…..paleo.. genes, LC, FAT, RS — and try to put it all together— there all CORRECT in phases until you get balanced.
I also find it odd the HADZA and Italian study http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140415/ncomms4654/full/ncomms4654.html
the HADZA had lower butyrate, but we are so focused on raising it… now Im not sick mine is lower??time will tell I guess if I get cancer, hope not.
Prevotella abundance seen in the Hadza GM match a presence/absence scenario with SCFA concentrations that are enriched in propionate and reduced in butyrate with respect to Italians.
Dont get me wrong—–Im still drooling for your book and will buy it to support you $$$$ and what you do…..you do a great part pointing out things
its just this area is still very open….
eddie says:
Richard,
you are making millions aware
and doing a dam good job!!!!, but many are looking at you and your RS
to fix them, like the KETO do for Jimmy. Your doing a great justice and
really opening doors. I just want to keep enforcing you have to get
there or be there… If had several people message me about there
problems— I dont hash the RS I just explain its not right for you at
this time
But I do hope you look into yeast/mold of the gut and include a section for your book.. I have nagged you – I even sent you a novel message thru facebook the other day
eddie says:
eddie says:
you are making millions aware
and doing a dam good job!!!!, but many are looking at you and your RS
to fix them, like the KETO do for Jimmy. Your doing a great justice and
really opening doors. I just want to keep enforcing you have to get
there or be there… If had several people message me about there
problems— I dont hash the RS I just explain its not right for you at
this timeBut I do hope you look into yeast/mold of the gut and include a section for your book.. I have nagged you
– I even sent you a novel message thru facebook the other dayeddie says:
Trish,
Have you ever thought—-that you say””” I was one of those VLC people you speak of and you have completely changed my mind about my diet. I was VLC for about two years, felt great, lost 70″ but then you slowly felt bad–cold hands and feet..
looking back dont you think by being VLC you used this as a tool –getting rid of or lowing an inbalance of yeast/bacteria. Im sure if you had tracked your self your balance bacteria firmicutes and bacteria bacteroides as well as YEAST would have changed..
you then jumped into the RS world and your health took off!!!!!!!!!!!! coconut oil is anti fungal http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17651080 you eat your potatos in coconut oil, eating your RS yet not feeding the yeast in you
Have you ever thought—-that you say””” I was one of those VLC people you speak of and you have completely changed my mind about my diet. I was VLC for about two years, felt great, lost 70″ but then you slowly felt bad–cold hands and feet..
looking back dont you think by being VLC you used this as a tool –getting rid of or lowing an inbalance of yeast/bacteria. Im sure if you had tracked your self your balance bacteria firmicutes and bacteria bacteroides as well as YEAST would have changed..
you then jumped into the RS world and your health took off!!!!!!!!!!!! coconut oil is anti fungal http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17651080 you eat your potatos in coconut oil, eating your RS yet not feeding the yeast in you
eddie says:
Trish,
I am similar my family has a long line of type 2 or crohns… if you dig deep they are simular in the fact people regulate starch they feel better and change
I did LC for a long period and will say it changed me for the better….–but theres no way you could eat that way forever. Its a tool and you sound like you have used it to your advantage as I did ..
Many will are that coconut oil is or isnt antimicrobial. same with caprylic acid – a medium chain triglyceride — try adding it inside of more coconut oil. When you jump the fence many feel diabetes etc are fungus/yeast related. Looking at my families past and what happen to me– it was in my personal case. Your LC most likely lowered your yeast– but also killed off good bacteria. You may have shifted your balance back toward bacteria— and your good are enjoying your RS.. Read up on caprylic acid , and your coconut oil it may surprise you (yeast)
I am similar my family has a long line of type 2 or crohns… if you dig deep they are simular in the fact people regulate starch they feel better and change
I did LC for a long period and will say it changed me for the better….–but theres no way you could eat that way forever. Its a tool and you sound like you have used it to your advantage as I did ..
Many will are that coconut oil is or isnt antimicrobial. same with caprylic acid – a medium chain triglyceride — try adding it inside of more coconut oil. When you jump the fence many feel diabetes etc are fungus/yeast related. Looking at my families past and what happen to me– it was in my personal case. Your LC most likely lowered your yeast– but also killed off good bacteria. You may have shifted your balance back toward bacteria— and your good are enjoying your RS.. Read up on caprylic acid , and your coconut oil it may surprise you (yeast)
- Eddie,
I’ve come to believe that the only way to keep yeast/candida at bay is by simply putting your colon into the correct pH (6.1 to 6.8 for fecal matter). Not too acidic and not neutral or alkaline — as the research clearly shows:
Alkalinity promotes Candida overgrowth
The problem with any other “tool” — whether it be a LC starvation protocol, or various supplements and anti-fungals — is that candida can adapt over time. Starve your body of exogenous glucose and candida can slowly adapt to using ketones for fuel (as they have mitochondria). Perhaps it didn’t happen to you because your pH was too low (as you’ve said) and your candida probably wasn’t hyphal. Most people have alkaline guts from lack of fiber, and LC diets don’t fix that.
The candida growth gene is really just like a light switch controlled by pH. You can throw acids down your gullet, or you can just make your gut bugs create the acids for you (or do both).
You already know this already, but why not just tell people to normalize their gut pH rather than assuming they need a LC diet? -
eddie says: Duck
You Have a great point.!!!!… I think , LC starved my yeast, and gut bacteria…..pretty good —taking the anti fungals / supplements really hammered at it. *** but un like most–I focused on getting that fiber and inulin (high while dropping alot of the carbs)to jump start my bacteria– along with loads of different types of bifido and lactco which to this day I feel stay high/middle in my tract .
I think the candida gene—- is HLA DQ2 (gluten genes and it is a light switch which turns on from yeast… As I have turned off the switch—able to eat gluten /beer or ice cream.. ( i dont do it alot…( i think the LC is just a complete tear down) For those whos gut bugs are really messed up and mine were
CLOSTRIDIA & YEAST — changing that PH is now easy task with foods
Your wording is PERFECT!!!! controlled PH or your gut bugs create the acids– the problem I dont think your going to swing that PH with out trashing your BIOME and changing your foods for a period or cycle.. to get that extra–kill. Too long like you say they will adapt — to food alone or acids -
Duck Dodgers says:
I think the candida gene—- is HLA DQ2 (gluten genes and it is a light switch which turns on from yeast… As I have turned off the switch—able to eat gluten /beer or ice cream..
Not according to the literature I just pointed you to. Sounds like you never took the time to read the studies in that alkalinity link. This is important stuff, Eddie. You ought to know this if you’re going to keep talking about yeast all the time.
It’s not a human gene that turns candida’s hyphal form off. So, gluten has nothing to do with the pH sensing. Candida has its own pH-sensing genes.
From: RIM101-dependent and-independent pathways govern pH responses in Candida albicans.
…and…
We identified C. albicans RIM101, RIM20, and RIM8 based on their homology to components of the one known fungal pH response pathway
From: PHR2 of Candida albicans encodes a functional homolog of the pH-regulated gene PHR1 with an inverted pattern of pH-dependent expression
And there were about a dozen studies that echoed those findings from that link.
Deletion of PHR1, a pH-regulated gene of Candida albicans, results in pH-conditional defects in growth, morphogenesis, and virulence evident at neutral to alkaline pH but absent at acidic pH. Consequently, we searched for a functional homolog of PHR1 active at low pH. This resulted in the isolation of a second pH-regulated gene, designated PHR2. The expression of PHR2 was inversely related to that of PHR1, being repressed at pH values above 6 and progressively induced at more acidic pH values
Sooo… PHR1 is one of its light switches for switching on hyphal candida in alkaline guts. And PHR2 seems to be a light switch for switching on hyphal candida in guts that are too acidic (as yours was). The key is to normalize your gut pH and get your gut bugs to make the SCFAs and metabolites that knock it out.
You were a special case, eddie. Your gut was too acidic (maybe why highly-fermentable RS didn’t help?), and your gut likely switched on PHR2 (and perhaps other undiscovered genes) for hyphal growth. Whereas most low carbers have a gut that is too alkaline and the alkalinity switches on the PHR1, RIM101, RIM20, and RIM8 genes for hyphal growth.
The key point here is that when pH is normalized, candida isn’t really a threat. It’s just a benign friend that lives symbiotically with us (helps with detoxification from what I understand). If your gut pH is abnormal, it causes all sorts of trouble.
I seriously doubt that candida is ever totally “starved” to the point of eradication. More likely it just hunkers down under a biofilm and waits to plan its next move. Whereas normalizing gut pH literally switches it’s hyphal form off and leaves it benign and vulnerable to other attacks (biofilm disruptors, enzymes/digesters, etc).
So, if I had to choose a “tool” to fight a candida infection, I would choose pH modulation every time. Just flick off the darn switch by normalizing your gut, and hit it with some biofilm disruptors and digesters to crowd it out!
- Duck
I have read those studies some in the past and those are some great links.. and look over some last night
my HLA DQ2 is 2.5 plus two more genes not connecting Alpha and beta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HLA-DQ2#DQ2.5_and_gluten
I understand the PH up and down etc for candida or yeasts to change form I have read alot into this. I would invite you to investigate more in the relationship of HWp1 proteins and yeast as well soy and cassien (milk)
Im sure the up and down of ph will help in the changing of pathogenic yeast to normal form as well — help kill /lower it. Plus the fact some bacteria block or hammer it.
What I have said is LC could help starve it– while you take supplements .It could very well be in this process your changing the PH greatly
and Im sure it is…One your removing foods and two your taking oils and acids.
If your immune system is a train wreck — the very proteins of foods , like HWP1 , soy and milk resemble yeast– so your immune system confused for a lack of words believes these foods to be yeast. For me — and maybe its just me, form whats happen to me and my slow process of removing foods and slowly adding them– and doing all my quack tests. Documenting every little detail. As these foods were removed — my sinus , hemorrhoids, joint pain and headaches disappeared. My GI inflammation in one test went from 1310 to 97 over a year NOrmal is below500 . Since building back all my BACTERIA , my food issue is gone- with milk and gluten. DO I dare eat it every day again your standard American sandwich etc. No , I ve chosen a path a path with out it. Due to my genes and what ive read and learned fungus etc being loaded on the crops due to silo storage , I know yeast/mold/fungus in antibiotics can activate my immune system.. I saw this happen with amoxicillin ( look up the ingredients ) I have many examples — I still harp on bacteria akkermansia . To me this bacteria plays some sort of role in Zonulin http://primaldocs.com/opinion/zonulin-leaky-gut/ Ive started chatting with –Eileen Laird http://www.phoenixhelix.com/ who has intolerance to starch , grain , milk etc like I did.
she has been testing many things like RS– and gets pain with in days..she is slowly rebuilding herself. Her husband is fine and she isnt — she has no akkermansia and finds this interesting in her personal testing,
I have an example of my son at 4 months or so –when he got the HEPB vaccine with in a week he broke out with sores all over his skin , rear was inflamed — the ingredients YEAST protein. my sone will get half my genes and half my wifes…i dont know hers -
Duck Dodgers says:
What I have said is LC could help starve it– while you take supplements .It could very well be in this process your changing the PH greatly and Im sure it is…One your removing foods and two your taking oils and acids
It’s just one approach. While safe starches route is another approach that increases acid fermentation and maintains the biome. Two different tools for two different people. If your gut is too acidic (as yours was) it makes sense to make your gut more alkaline, so that PHR2 is switched off.
For most people, switching to a LC diet will make them more alkaline — particularly if they don’t eat huge buckets of fiber every day. If they were already close to neutral (as most people are) going LC will lower fermentation, alkalinity will rise and PHR1, RIM101, RIM20, and RIM8 will switch on candida’s hyphal growth.
So, you can’t just go around telling everyone to go on a VLC starvation protocol and assume it will work for everyone. It’s not that simple. Again, the reason it probably worked for you is because you were too acidic to begin with and you needed more alkalinity. You were an extreme situation and most people need more acids, not less.
For most people the glucose from safe starches tend to be absorbed into the bloodstream before candida can reach most of it. Heck, you could probably chew your potatoes to oblivion and the glucose would be absorbed sublingually before candida in the gut could ever touch it. For “average” people, the glycemic starches are usually quickly absorbed before candida gets to it and fermentation normalizes gut pH while maintaining the biome. It’s a much safer and easier approach.
Remember, a gut that is too acidic (as yours was) is not the norm. It’s the exception. Let’s not make the mistake that your successful acid-lowering approach will work for everyone. -
eddie says: Duck
Im not telling everyone to do LC but I find it odd many have done this and then moved on to here RS and had great success…. my case maybe odd
You are great at research and finding reports studies etc please look up hwp1 soy and cassin and report back what you find on these proteins.
I argue my case as its not as simple as changing the phlook at the recent stufff coming in a person gets bit by a tick gets lyme disease and becomes allergic to red meat. Look at the proteins and sugars here
The immune system has a response do to it being simular to the bacteria from the tick bite
My case in point to yeast and food proteins ..untill foods are removed problem fixed the immune system will not down regulate and turn off that switch
As well getting to the real problem
You can change the ph all you want but until the immune system rests repairs ..its not going to change anything -
Duck Dodgers says: Eddie,
We get it. Some people need to do starvation protocols. Certainly not everyone. And they aren’t risk free. -
eddie says: Your not getting it.. its not starvation its simlar proteins and sugar report back what you find on hwp1 etc on top of ph…lost off tract immune system
-
Duck Dodgers says: “Im not telling everyone to do LC but I find it odd many have done this and then moved on to here RS and had great success”
And I would point out that there are plenty of anecdotes of people’s fungal infections getting worse by going VLC (as mine did). VLC promotes fungal infections when fermentation is low. -
DuckDodgers says: “Your not getting it.. its not starvation its simlar proteins and sugar report back what you find on hwp1 etc on top of ph…lost off tract immune system”
Yes, if your immune system is a “wreck” (likely from a leaky gut) you need to avoid foods that confuse your immune system and cause antibodies and toxins to enter your bloodstream through a leaky gut. We know this already. Easiest way to do that is with a 30 day (LC) whole foods elimination diet and slowly reintroduce potentially offending foods to determine what the problems are. It doesn’t require all the unproven quack testing which basically just shows what antibodies are leaking through your gut and into your bloodstream at any given moment. Your body can tell you through a simple elimination diet. -
Bruno says: Hi Duck and Eddie – I’ve been following along for some time.
I have to bring up that just as no diet is perfect for everyone, so do we have individual variations that make us unique.
Some may produce insufficient gastric acid making the small intestine more alkaline and prone to SIBO. Also, there are genetic variations in secretion of endogenous fucose, also resulting in a completely different intestinal environment.
Some people require acid replacements and zinc therapy to combat overgrowths from acid deficiency.
Also over- or under-production of bile can make a drastic difference in the gut environment.
We have genetic differences, physical differences, and dietary choices that dictate the pH of the intestine. For people who have been battling poor digestion for a long time, it will be harder to get to the root of the problem, and things may get worse before they get better.
Biofilms a big confounder in this, as well. I agree that keeping the pH as stable as possible by feeding RS and other prebiotics is the first step in a long-term solution. -
Bruno says: Gemma – Yeast is more powerful and intelligent than you give credit! Have you ever read anything about yeast? I suggest you read a bit before you laugh at this suggestion.
- Again, Bruno. Gemma is well aware. We’ve both discussed it many times. Leave her be!
I suspect that invasive fungi really aren’t plotting against us. If fungi, yeasts and bacteria rose up as Earth’s recyclers (creating/maintaining soils, forests and life), this implies that they are drones waiting for a signal of when it’s time to recycle a dead animal.
If we were to evolve a simple microorganism that could live inside every animal and wait for its death, we would want it to have sensors for detecting death. I suspect that a pH shift in the gut would be a pretty good indicator (perhaps there are others). If pH becomes too alkaline or too acidic, this implies that the host is not well and my guess is that the entire biome would need to detect this so the gut bugs knew when it was time to decompose the body. This would explain things like why candida lives symbiotically at a normal pH and becomes hyphal at abnormal pHs. And, yes, why E. Coli produces vitamins at a normal gut pH but becomes “pathogenic” at an abnormal pH.
These fungi and pathogens probably have a larger purpose in our environment. I don’t think their embedded software program is sinister per se as many of these organisms probably evolved before animals even showed up.
But Gemma knows all this. In fact, I learned a lot of it from her! -
Gemma says: @Duck
Oh, no need to be so mean at Bruno. Be a bit nice next time, please!
It is all right people get interested in fungi, they are part of the microbiome too.
@Bruno
Do not get discouraged, please. Just tell me MORE about my favourite subject. -
eddie says: Gemma Bruno & Duck
Im not trying to fight with you guys , Im trying to bring to the light that many other food proteins /sugars resemble bacteria or yeast. This is the other 1/3 of the problem. Once the immune system has been socked under the chin. You can toss the fibers foods (RS)etc raise and lower the PH . But if your getting in foods that resemble –your problem then youll be stuck in a circle. You may have raised or lowered the PH but the foods your eating — continue the problem with the immune system continuing the battle
From my personal testing — look at vitamins, almost all Vitd3 has soy, many probiotics milk and other stuff, others grain, milk, nuts soy starch what ever your fancy.
So you have a problem, as duck says remove that food— you may not even know that food is doing something. (standard IGE allergy testing is only for an instant allergy) Your doc says take vitamins b12 etc vit D and so on. But your making yourself sick because your taking vitamins that A help but B continue the problem. When my stomach crashed they said eat toast, light foods apple sauce , crackers yogurt. ( almost laughable ) I read and learned the value of making your own yogurt (SCD) which removes all lactose — I did this felt fine eating. But my quack testing… and some normal panels GI docs use IBD or IBD expanded showed high numbers. Many of these tests are called BS and quack because –back to the top- food proteins /sugars can resemble bacteria or yeast. Why I say a limited diet in phases can -pin point things,.( I personally saw this in my self. The problem people are to LAZY to eat certain foods or limit them-self in type for periods of time.
There are many docs that look at and believe in the other factor yeast and bacteria -one example William Shaw, Ph.D. he worked at the center for disease control. you ll find that any doc that brings up the word yeast( its like a GUN shot to the head) for there career) search and you will see. FDA didnt take kindly to Shaw so he left. He voiced his opinion which big pharm didnt like.
I have read all the studies — reports etc , PH up PH down ….this is right this is wrong…but you see everyone still has problems . Why we are all chatting in a window on the internet if what they said was right– which we realize alot of it is wrong at times or later.
For me, I have a unique situation, I have a full family history of both sides and medical from the bad side. Starting with my great grand father( the problem) A large Italian side all had many kids. Those kids had many kids and so on. You can see and track crohns and type 2 down the line. As many got these- they got added arthritis- then osteoporosis and then heart disease- many had added stomach problems some minor. I jumped into the CLUB at 38.( today im no longer a member)
Studies are great– but until you live thru the nightmare- go thru the effects its a little different. I had the stomach issues- then half of my hip /ass cut open for a deep fistula…I was told all the BS— tossed antibiotics like I was a dart board , the doc with a blind fold. I d be happy to share all my medical stuff– everytime nothing… As well I watched the people around fall off the wagon. Studies are great– all that advice, my family has gotten , has gotten them 6 feet under. What I can tell you from my history- my (PLAYING around) documenting , testing etc. I carry genes for type 2 and gluten problems.. (several) I maybe an odd bird –as ive been called. To me these two are similar crohns and type 2 when you look under the scope- and watch the genes or symptoms travel down my family.. For me I personally feel they are the cause. depending on how many gluten genes you carry and the environment impact of -yeasts- medicines , eating of trash foods that feed them–HIGH sugar. Ive been to the GI , the ENT’s etc many times in my life and heard all the BS.. and this and that. The answer antibiotics
Until I investigated, I call played around – I have turned all the switches off. I like people to be aware of fungus & BACTERIA because they both play a role -if you want to believe it or not. I live 20 mins from Johns hopkins and 30 min from NIH. the top gluten doc use to be in Maryland and has now moved on to MA. ( I planned to seek him out at the 3 to 4 year mark) Hopkins and NIH are looking for families that have these GI issues. One so they can compare families genes. At some point , I personally will be a pin cushion there — my goal is to meet some REAL docs so they can actually see now and L@@K , listen and extract what ever they want to see why , im now healthy— I already know, for my case- I want to see them say it to my face. ( Im sure it will be why are you here your fine)
My side maybe more gluten, and yeast – and at some point I may take amoxicillin and make my self sick to prove a point( like the McDonald s documentary ) But I know what I have done (my data), can help some one in science getting the right person. -
eddie says: as well– If I could post a PIC
on here or send it to you – Id love to show off what fell out of my EAR this past year…
A BIO FILM — which came out after taking multiple things to hammer yeast
I had just gone to the ENT who said I look fine- we can try a cat scan –said how about some antibiotics
I showed my GP and he was like wow and said he had seen something like this before. -
Duck Dodgers says: Eddie,
I believe you. I just don’t think everyone has had their “immune system…socked under the chin.” You’re talking about your own extreme case as an example. But you can’t just apply that extreme case to everyone. Most people just have more basic issues that are solved with a few dietary changes. No need to overcomplicate things for everyone. -
Duck Dodgers says: “Id love to show off what fell out of my EAR this past year…A BIO FILM”
Thanks, I’ll pass. And if that’s not an extreme case, I don’t know what is! -
eddie says: Yeah no problem
But I will say my stomach functioned perfectly
Zero issue except for bad hemorrhoids all my life why I always was sent for colonoscopy
Learn from my story know your genes..know your antibiotics
Because that sucker punch can come anytime from taking antibiotics if you dont know what your taking or know your body normal one day not the next
Docs dont have all the answers and in the GI world actually make things worse most of the time
After going from 182 pds to 132
I woke up and learned the value of probiotics ..bacteria foods inulin fiber and RS
Listen to these people duck..richard gemma your gut will be in a good place -
eddie says: But the ENT checked me and said I was good!!!
Also suggested an antibiotic — I will only assume would have made more bio flim -
Bruno says: Eddie – You da man! Keep talking, somebody will listen. There are not many people who recover from severely dysbiotic guts. Most doctors will do a little, but not enough. most people will try a few things, but not enough.
I love RS for most people who aren’t compromised, just like I like Vit D for almost everyone. We can test our Vit D levels and dose accordingly, but it’s not so easy to test our guts.
Here seems to be the typical scenario, is it what happened to you, Eddie? : a guy goes to the doctor, not feeling well…gets antibiotics and a couple follow-ons. Doesn’t get better, may get worse. Then maybe a test of his guts is ordered, but it is a lame test and maybe mis-read by the doctor. More antibiotics or some other pharmaceuticals. Maybe some probiotics. This person finds no relief, so instead finds a way to eat that lets the symptoms ease, maybe this involves PPI drugs.
So tell me, were you actually diagnosed with a yeast overgrowth or did you figure it out yourself? What first led you to believe you had a problem? -
Duck Dodgers says: A brilliant explanation of the problems with VLC when combating candida:
From: How to eliminate Candida & biofilms
It should be obvious that nutrient starvation is not an ideal approach to killing candida.
It is the conventional belief out there that to get rid of candida one must consume little to no carbs in order to stop their growth. This logically means putting the body into ketosis. What most people don’t know however is that ketones can also fuel candida growth and the fungi themselves use ketones to evade the bodies immune system. The following is the collection of a few days research that completely shifts the conventional paradigm on the various forms of Candida diet out there.
The following 1st paper shows that the ketone beta-hydroxybutyrate will feed candida, and the 2nd shows that the ketone Aceoacetate is used by Candida to evade the body’s immune system. The 3rd shows that starvation makes candida grow exponentially.
“The ability to neutrophils from diabetics to kill candida was inhibited by increased concentrations of glucose and beta-hydroxybutyrate, both independently and in combination.
These data indicate that although phagocytosis occurs at similar levels in diabetics and controls, killing of candida by the diabetic neutrophil is impaired under conditions of hyperglycaemia and ketosis.” (reference)
“Therefore, prolonged ketosis may be a significant risk factor for candidiasis. This study was undertaken to investigate whether C. albicans itself produces a ketotic metabolite as a virulence factor which can effectively undermine host defense by neutrophils.” (source)
“Starvation of yeast cells induces exponentially grown cells (and usually non-germinative) to germinate. This phenomenon is also observed in cells that are transiently treated with metabolic inhibitors. During each of these treatments (starvation, metabolic inhibition), expression of a growth regulatory gene (CGRI) increases. Candida albicans: adherence, signaling and virulence.” Calderone et al. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11204138
Glucose obviously feeds candida as well however I have not seen evidence that it impairs immunity against candida such as ketones. Glucose therefore appears to be the lesser of two evils in this case when compared to ketones. From a blood point of view it’s impossible to eliminate glucose anyways. Ketogenic diets and many Paleo diets therefore in the long term are counter-productive. Starch and specifically resistant starch is necessary to feed the good guys which are your primary defense against candida.
I really do suspect candida and yeasts need to abide by these marching orders so that they can properly decompose and recycle its host when the host dies. Upon death, all food would stop (i.e. starvation) and pH would become abnormal. This would be a perfect signal for candida to become hyphal and begin eating its own host.
Fungi have two roles in nature. They offer potent medicines and they are natures most powerful recyclers! Their roles existed on this planet well before vascular plants and animals even existed. -
eddie says: Bruno,
It all started after little over a month and half of amoxicillin. . For a dental inplant /crown. From here it all slowly started and got wise
My stomach slowly got bad..my regular food started to bug me …I couldnt eat a sandwich anything with milk …my nose would bleed random ly… my life long hemmroids got worse… then ulcer in the gut
The hemorrhoids turned to a fistula.
I knew other family members had issues and began to question everyone..I found every person embarassed . My gi ran tests..all the parisite tests bacteria …etc did find anything ..ran ibd panel..nothing ran celiac panel nothing.. he ran a hla dq disease association test came back positive he also ran the ibd expanded panel came back high AMCA AND ALCA. TISSUE Tissue samples came back irregular for biopsy. I was tossed zysozin flaygal and another I cant think of right now. I began to what I csay die…I quickly dropped to 132 pds my skin looked like I was 90 on my hands..I have photos. I finally to them no more…and left. I began to break down all my tests ..and searched for better labs and alternate testing. Since I had hla diease association I genetic tested hla dq ..coming back with several genesi then researched my alca and amca breaking out all foods and bacteria s and yeasts. I used great plains lab oat test and compstool. I had high yeast markers and clostrida ..I used american gut. I used alot of there things ..at the sametime I had and endoscopy I was told crohns and ulcer colitis and drugs for the rest of my life……I said thanks but no thanks and began my journey..I wont go in detail all the stuff I did..I used and food etc
But I did raise my vid3 first from 21 to 55 from a soy free source ..I also used probiotics renew life 50 billion as well at times and still do mixing various different strains. But ones free of milk soy and starch because out of no where I became intolerant to all of them.
I will say im been now slowly adding starch from plantain chips had some baked potato and no problems.. I can now eat pizza or drink beer again
But what I do is pop a probiotic an extra that night if I do…..my stomach is now better then ever and better then friends who had no disease
Sorry for any type os in cell phone -
eddie says: From all my data I treated for yeast
Foods …supplements etc ..took in bacteria to block eat.hammer them.. keyed in on sinus as I believe you re infect your self from nasal drip.
1 year in my seasonal allergies left..no more hemmroids gluten intolerance disappears ..milk and the last im working on 2.5 years in starch and I think this is almost fully licked
No more weather changing migraines …and I no longer snore. Lost some of my gray hair back to brown…sleep well no alarm clock for 1.5 years
I medical tape my lips closed hahah which forces me to continue to now breathe thru my nose not mouth at night…..causingfor me no mucus -
eddie says: As well every couple months some strange thing will happen and my health becomes better and better
Currently I playing with a bacteria to see the effects on will it be my total ldl cholesterol or total ldl particles…. this eats / lowers bile salts -
Gemma says: @Eddie
We all love your comments and your story, including your temperamento. Please go on posting you experience.
Just a quick question: during your anti- candida and UC healing quest, have you included much mushrooms into your diet? And if, with what effects? -
eddie says: Worked for me…..but I also took large doses of lacto 10 strains and 5 bifido strains while doing it
You wont find many good studies on probiotics while doing this because big pharma makes no money
Now post the other KEY Here…removel of simlar foods proteins/sugars hwp1 cassin and soy ..you may have forgot to look and post this
As well post what you find on candida and people dieing of cancer…it will alarm you many the few that the few that are cut open and checked actually had fugal over growth and died die to the cancer drugs
Its proven that the cancer treatment usually people rise in fungus overgrowth. Many who take to many antibiotics get cancer ……and blood cancer
Please report back what you find on on hwp1 cassin and soy your missing my key point …remove food lc was only 1/4 of what it did -
Tinkerer says: Dog Dodgers wrote: “so that they can properly decompose and recycle its host when the host dies. Upon death, all food would stop (i.e. starvation) and pH would become abnormal. This would be a perfect signal for candida to become hyphal and begin eating its own host.”
Bingo! -
eddie says: Gemma
I have not used mushrooms as I have followed advice what doug kauffmann says on them
They have some great things in them. I have choosen to remove all types of yeast foods and foods with simulalooking proteins / sugars as if found for my self a relation ship in turning on my hla dq2 genes
I ve had all these foods out of my diet for 2.5 years and now have slowly began putting them back. My latest has been trying to get starch other then nuts in ..
I use to eat mushrooms .my wife is lithuanian every year we would see the family we would stroll in the woods picking wild mushrooms . The best ive ever had in my life…I miss them.. picking with them was funny any thing I would look at id say how about this one they would say eat that you will die
I hope to add them in next summer -
Duck Dodgers says: “I have not used mushrooms as I have followed advice what doug kauffmann says on them”
Doug Kaufmann has mycophobia (fear of mushrooms). Medicinal mushrooms have anti-fungal compounds in them. For instance, you can make an aqueous extract (i.e. a tea) of Reishi mushrooms — one of the world’s most well-studied medicinal mushrooms — and the tea can will have anti-fungal compounds in it. People in China have known this for thousands of years.
Here someone decided to make a mushroom toothpaste to kill candida.
From: Antifungal activity of a toothpaste containing Ganoderma lucidum against Candida albicans – an in vitro study
Candida albicans is the most common oral fungus associated with oral candidial infections. Various antifungal agents are in use and the search is on for more agents showing anti candidial properties. Ganoderma lucidum has been in use in Traditional Chinese Medicine for years. Literature supports the use of this Ganoderma lucidum as a medicinal mushroom for its antimicrobial, antiviral properties…The activity of a Ganoderma containing toothpaste against Candida albicans…The toothpaste exhibited antifungal properties against the tested organism.From: A Review on Antifungal Activity of Mushroom (Basidiomycetes) Extracts and Isolated Compounds
Kaufmann is an alarmist. There are a wide range of mushroom extracts/teas that can fight fungal infections.
As far as we know, 52 species were reported as having antifungal activity (Table 1); most of them are edible mushrooms (44 referenced from among 52 species)…Most of the mushrooms that exhibit revealed antifungal activity are wild, allowing a higher diversity among the studied species…Oudemansiella canarii and Agaricus bosporus methanolic extracts proved to be the best ones agains Candida sp.. Regarding mushroom compounds, grifolin (2) isolated from Albatrellus dispansus seemed to be the best option against phytopathogenic fungi. -
Gemma says: Or here:
The Pharmacological Potential of Mushrooms
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1193547/
“This review describes pharmacologically active compounds from mushrooms. Compounds and complex substances with antimicrobial, antiviral, antitumor, antiallergic, immunomodulating, anti-inflammatory, antiatherogenic, hypoglycemic, hepatoprotective and central activities are covered, focusing on the review of recent literature. The production of mushrooms or mushroom compounds is discussed briefly.” -
eddie says: Duck,
I feel like your a cowboy gun slinger posting gun shots at me hahahaha. Its ok because I got rhe same thing when I was. There are good mold and good yeasts that have medicadal valve I have not argued any fact that many things help candida etc
Raising lowering ph …food can killhelp or hurt.
You are quick and fast at the trigger to find and post treatments on these. But what you do see is almost all gluten ..candida suffers dont get any better as well many colitis and crohns people
I not saying everyone has a leaky gut
What I ve said – and what im seeing in my case by documenting and testing. Simular food proteins/sugars appear to be relavent.
Every day people join the club getting crohns colitis and celiac ..maybe age 5..or 25 maybe 45. Many who were perfectly healthy. And not considered extreme cases to you
What im saying and still trying to point out is you can treat with all your studies info etc ..but you see people are sick and not getting better
Im seeing foods with simular proteins and sugars play a role in your treatments your finding. We know doc dont relie on diet for treatment.
If you know you have many gluten genes for exampleand the foods proteins and simular to other foods or medicine ..dont you think you woulwould have a problem with them.
I point recently as an example again lyme diease
.They dont have a leaking gut but now the sugar from the bacteria they have resembles red meat they eat….and now there allergic to red meat
We see now an up tick of more people yearly of gut problems . Please report back what you find on bacteria or yeast and simular food proteins
Use yeast…hwp1 soy and milk
Or lyme and red meat
Or pick your own ans report back what you
Find.. ive read and understand all the treatments
You have pointed to chris kessler..have has some great info and stuff.. im pointing somethings about doug kauffmann. Some of his argument is if you have a proble with say yeast simular foods could also be a problem. Ive seen this personally
Again im sure today if I walk into a new GI s office I would be considered normal and non diease -
Duck Dodgers says: Eddie,
You keep telling me to “report back”. What am I supposed to be reporting back about?
If I search for “yeast hwp1 soy and milk” the first hit is you talking here, on this very post, here on FTA.
People with Lyme get severe leaky guts — perhaps from all the antibiotics they take. Undigested proteins—that would ordinarily be digested in a healthy person—slip through the leaky gut and into the bloodstream, causing an immune response.
What’s your point? Everything you’re talking about seems to just be related to leaky gut issues. -
eddie says: Duck,
I suggest you search gluten and hwp1 ..this has nothing to do with leaky gut ..
Then start searching the relation of cassin to yeast and as well soy to yeast. You point to all these treatments and studies . You realize if you asked your local GI about leaky gut or said you had this they would laugh at you. As they dont buy Into this
Have you also look at the sugar and relation to red meat and lyme there is alot of new stuff here .
I hit a cement wall with my gi when I was sick I was told meds for the rest of my life. I choose to pass..so far ive made the right choice. I heard it all from my gi everything you say. Now they scratch there head.
Is it impossible to belive that your immune system can confuse simlar foods??? Or a medicine like amoxicillin which is simular. Not having a so called leaky gut?? If your immune system is ramped up and you say now have a gluten problem and yeast is simular you dont think you would have a problem??
Excluding yeast……if the bacteria your over ran with…and you eat something simlar protein/sugar wise dont you think you could respond
This is allim trying to point out.
Removing a factor of you say leaky gut..I believe in this term myself even thou I was laughed in my face personally asking about it. If you eat say gluten and that protein hwp1 looks like yeast it could be possiblewhen you eat yeast foods or gluten you could have the same response. This is what I found with myself Playing around.
Im just pointing out we will exclude yeast and say any bacteria.. the same could be true .
Just why I personally feel some fail in treatment
To me and its just an opinion treat needs to go further in just killing lowering /raising bacteria ..as well fixing raising and lowering ph
For me I belive this has been a key factor
Sorry for my types the phone web page is terrible..im on a cell phone. And I will say this weekend I have been at the beach..ive enjoyed 5 beers ..ice cream with my son and had an amazing bacon potato salad..and other starch ..had my large RS dump..haha and things have been a -ok
You still post some amazing links – I give you lots of credit an amazing dude. Id be amazed to sit and hash back and forth over coffee -
Duck Dodgers says:
Eddie says: I suggest you search gluten and hwp1 ..this has nothing to do with leaky gut ..
Sorry, Eddie. But it has everything do with leaky gut. Intestinal permeability (i.e. leaky gut) is triggered by Zonulin. Zonulin is triggered by HWP-1 (found in both gluten and candida). How do you not see that connection?
As the gut becomes more permeable (i.e. “leaky”) undigested food particles slip into the bloodstream and the body mounts immune responses to those food particles that are normally supposed to stay in the gut.
- You realize zonulin is his theroy abd what he is working on. So now I have finally beliveing in ywast as a cause…to health problems
You just now said yeast COULD be a serious problem where before you didnt.
By wording my response I finally got you to peek in
So if your saying hwp1 which is the protein in gluten looks like yeast ..and yeast can be a problem
Two other proteins are simular soy and milk
So you now see my point..these people never get better ..if they have yeast the starch feeds the yeast
Now take amoxicillin your adding yeas/mold to the system. So if you have a problem you just added or gave somone a problem. The hep b vaccine for kids a 4 to 6 months is high in yeast proteins
Im trying to open peoples eyes
Because. .I personally feel these facters are why we are seeing an increase in children adults with gluten allergies ….gut problems crohns and celiac
Then when your sick bacteria leaks in and they give multi rounds or different antibiotics making the problem worse as bad gut pathogens increase and good decrease. As you guys point out
And the use of inulin RS and fibers help bring back good bacteria etc with probiotics. But my point most avg foods have soy lectin or milk in them
As well gluten. ..the avg arerican diet
Where I think this fits into avg people.
Depending on your genes and how much yeast and simular food preoteins/sugars you eat and simular antiboitics /vaccine gets you create a problem …which we see increasing daily…with the us and briten leading -
eddie says: If your an adult and you have a kid
If you want to atend a US school you have to pretty much get every vaccine
If your an adult and a medicine harms you ..you can sue to recover damage
If you have a child get a vaccine and it damages your child your on your own..as the big pharm company cant be sued. Some of the very vaccines which no one will admit can also contribute to the issue.
No no vaccine weirdo my kid had them all
But we delt with issues after one.
Many things are cookie cutter ….as we see
Genes are playing a larger role
Why we have people on here talking and speaking of
Genes for eating starch and fat
My goal duck and yes I know gluten can cause leaky gut was for you to look at zonulin ..and food proteins /sugars as well seeing how simular foods can resemble your problem
Bacteria or yeast another part of the mystery -
Duck Dodgers says: “You just now said yeast COULD be a serious problem where before you didn’t.”
Eddie,
You probably just misunderstand me. My point is that yeast is only a serious problem when it’s hyphal. Otherwise, it’s just benign.
Think about it. “HWP-1″ stands for “Hyphal Wall Protein-1″.
From: Wikipedia:
But we already know that candida doesn’t grow Hyphae when gut pH is normal.
This “Hyphal” denomination is due to Hwp1 appears exclusively on the surface of a projection called Hyphae that emerges from the surface of this fungus.
So, for most people, they can avoid Hwp1 problems by simply avoiding gluten and keeping their gut pH normal. There is no need for these healthy individuals to worry about their benign yeasts. And people who get a mild candida infection (unlike yours) can usually just modulate their gut pH to switch off the candida Hyphae, and eliminate too much exposure to Hwp1.
A healthy person can tolerate a little Hwp1 from foods. We’d all have died off long ago otherwise. People with some genetic issues seem to be more susceptible to Hwp1 exposure (the gut doesn’t close back up properly). -
Duck Dodgers says: “My goal duck and yes I know gluten can cause leaky gut was for you to look at zonulin ..and food proteins /sugars as well seeing how simular foods can resemble your problem”
Eddie, I don’t have the kinds of autoimmune issues that you deal with.
For instance, if I drink raw milk, it makes me feel better. It doesn’t give me any obvious issues (raw milk also has compounds that seal up the gut of infants and calves). I stay away from gluten 90% of the time. I was VLC last year and had all sorts of issues — likely from fermentation dropping. I increased fermentation with RS and other fibers and my problems went away. That was my experience, and it’s a pretty normal response to changes in fermentation.
My point is that the average person can have normal temporary response to zonulin-triggering foods and not everyone is dealing with the extreme issues and immune reactions you have. If you want to talk about autoimmune issues, for those who have them, that’s great. Go for it! I’m sure it will help a lot of people with autoimmunity. But, let’s not suggest that everyone eventually gets autoimmune issues by drinking milk, etc. That’s just not the case.
In the early 19th century, Deacon Whitman lived to 107 years of age, with no apparent health issue, eating lots of gluten-rich grains every day and drinking lots of raw milk. He died peacefully of no apparent cause. He didn’t take antibiotics, but he ate a ton of fiber, from grains. Everyone is different.
- Duck
You realize I dont have any auto immune dieases now your talking about. my point
I can drink beer with the best of them (my friends)
A night on the weekend a six pack
Eat cheese. .have some yogurt dont dont have any problems. ..now eating starch for the last 3 weeks..I haven’t added mushrooms and most likely wont for some time
Im giving tou my thought and opinion and your taking small snips to write and base your responses
Im not saying everyone should avoid milk gluten or even Rs im saying many things are increase ing people allergies ….or disease mainly amount children
You can spin it how ever you want
But simular foods proteins/sugar can resemble
Bacteria or yeast… depending on your genes
An event can turn on at anything. Standard cookie cutter vaccine s and treatment when does have an event —– today is not working
Currently I have no allergies etc problems
Im sure the person you talk about also ate real grains fermented with a real starter in instead of frankin wheat and yeast from a packet–with out fermentation which doent break down grain
You have to wonder why theres an up tick in auto immune events and people getting sick
You are free of 90 percent of gluten ?? Why and when you do eat what particular gluten do you eat -
eddie says: As well deacon whitman
Drink raw milk… what value is processed milk the avg people are eating??? Other then calcium most is grain feed and high in omega 6
What value are the avg people getting from soy lectin bread with frankin grains ..risen in 10 min from packaged yeast with no fermentation
Im sure deacon most of his life didnt eat or drink this non sense………… -
Duck Dodgers says: “Im not saying everyone should avoid milk gluten or even Rs im saying many things are increase ing people allergies ….or disease mainly amount children”
Pasteurizing milk almost certainly caused milk intolerance in some people. In fact, the phrases “milk intolerance” and “milk allergy” were non-existent in the English lexicon before Pasteurization existed. Of course, Pasteurized milk has literally killed off the bacteria and enzymes necessary for digesting milk.
Deacon Whitman ate oatmeal, wheat, and corn porridges (what was known as “pudding” at the time). Those kinds of porridges pudding weren’t usually fermented. They were just overcooked grains that tended to be cooked/cooled/reheated a few times. Here’s a simple recipe. He also drank a ton of milk..
From: The Christian patriarch: A memoir of Deacon John Whitman
Our 17th, 18th and 19th century ancestors probably didn’t have any trouble with milk and probably didn’t have much trouble with their grains or gluten either. So, we can’t just blame these ancestral foods and their traditional preparations for today’s problems.
If there was any one article of food of which he ever seemed more fond than of another, it was milk. He often made his meal of this, either in its natural state, or boiled or made into milk porridge. There was a period of his life, between the ages of ninety-five and one hundred, when he almost entirely gave up animal food and confined himself to a milk diet. But, he thought that he experienced a clogging effect from his milk, and he returned to the common diet of the family, eating animal food in moderate quantities.
Antibiotics, modern wheat, GMOs, glyphosate, pasteurization and low-fiber diets, are more likely culprits. Richard tried to tell you this, above, but you kept hammering on about these very common proteins that have been widely consumed for millennia without the major problems we see today.
- Gemma,
Im all for mushrooms etc– but I point to that similar protein/sugar of them at the time of my gut failure. what I say wasnt helping me. even thou they have good effects.
I have an old article from Chris Masterjohn take a peak..–again**** so no one takes this out of context this is his view*** — of the Zonulin studies f Dr. Fasano’s (gluten expert did) Chirs ‘s comments http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/04/what-no-one-is-saying-about-zonulin-is.html
I point to this , as for me I ate gluten all my life–didnt know i carried so many gluten genes(HLA DQ2) and didnt have a problem until- 38 years old.. before hand I was ok. For me I see a relation between mannose and yeast
Following my AMCA from labcorp test 162045 blood test ( Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) Expanded Profile) one test of many your local GI uses in trying to figure out whats wrong when ones gut goes a-wall. I found what Chris said to be interesting. but AMCA below can be–just simple statements
AMCA- can be pathogenic fungi, particularly Candida species possible candida antibodies and fungal colonization
Mannobiose is a disaccharide. It is formed by a condensation reaction when 2 mannose molecules react together .
Much of the mannose used in glycosylation is believed to be derived from glucose, digestion of many polysaccharides and glycoproteins yields mannose
phosphorylated by hexokinase to generate mannose-6-phosphate. Mannose-6-phosphate is converted to fructose 6-phosphate
Recombinant proteins produced in yeast may be subject to mannose
Secretion of sugars such as mannose into the digestive system bind to lectins (such as gluten) and protect against their toxicity.
For me removal of all these foods and types (which like I say your not going to get someone to do) saw my numbers stay high– as well , I contribute the amoxicillin in this effect and yeast overload. Once this happen simular foods began to contribute to the problem. Removal of sugars, and mannons- and lowering my yeast foot print ) my numbers dropped. once normal– for some time, I put back in simular foods producing mannons and now I have no problem.
I also mega dosed with lacto and bifido.. I am not saying this is everyones problem. Im saying the article is interesting and some views are Nevertheless, zonulin is markedly up-regulated in subjects affected by [celiac disease], even when treated with a gluten-free diet. NO gluten.. where I come back to simular proteins and sugars.
When one goes gluten free— I did this at first you go to the hippie store and buy all gluten free foods…which are rice flour, potato flour , yogurt beans etc ,different types of rice, milk,
many foods feeding yeast or high in sugars / or similar.
Im just tossing this out there — since so many kids are now getting intolerances and gut problems. Removing all those basic antibiotics —which every kids first gets most likely penicillin– treating with probiotics , RS and fibers etc most likley will lesson the blow of problems. -
eddie says: Duck,
Our 17th, 18th and 19th century ancestors probably didn’t have any trouble with milk and probably didn’t have much trouble with their grains or gluten either——————
but they made real bread—fermented and broken down… and there milk was raw like you drink. ( it was pasteurized with really no valve left) There grains were not frank-in grains with high gluten as well( which isnt broken down at all in the modern bread process that started mainly in the 50’s
good link on bread and why natural leavened bread is the choice—and really what they consumed in the 17th 18th and early 19th century’s. There are many local sources for this bread locally ( but you have to search natural leavened bread) in your area
http://ranprieur.com/readings/natleavbread.html
The whole focus right now for people is to be gluten free——which you see isnt fully the problem —but its big business making some people a FAT wallet, like the word PALEO
If you dont mind me asking what grains do you eat since 90 percent of the time you are grain free?? oats ,quinoa ,amaranth ,millet buckwheat??? wheat?? -
Gemma says: @Eddie
I hear you. You are saying that some proteins in Candida’s wall are hypothesised to exhibit molecular mimicry to gluten and zonulin and cause leaky gut even if you eat no gluten. (Maybe it is the Candida itself ordering the intestinal junctions to open, who knows. Duck, how was that?)
And you are also saying that after getting rid of the fungal overgrowth your health improved, including leaky gut.
So can we both agree on the fact that fungal overgrowth in the intestines is no good?
Next, I was trying to tell you that eating killed fungi initiates immune response and helps clearing out the alive fungi from your body.
Any questions?
- Gemma,
Yes yes good wording… i just felt adding in any type of yeast/mold would have up set what I was doing even thou many studies point to them killing lowering candida ( which many studies Duck has pointed too) Since i took in a yeast/mold in the antibiotic , i believe that is what turned on and actually gave me the problem. after getting rid of the yeast— the actual foods that showed have helped , probiotic yogurt , kefier etc didnt help me… and — now i can eat and suspect there helping me.
Your statement MAYBE– Candida itself is ordering the intestinal junctions to open,
just an opinion — I say this because — all these gluten free people /celiac /intolerance dont get better— but eat simular proteins/foods and foods that feed it….. a so called gluten free diet
Hey i ll tell you I have missed my lithuanian mushrooms, my potatoes etc.. I had another baked potato this weekend..
What do you have articles on killed fungi.. Im certain my genes HLA DQ play a Large role in candida. If anything I hope to have someone look at me(for there testing) like Dr. Fasano. I had planned to make an appt at the 3 year mark – He was 15 min from me but move to MA from MD. Im sure many think im crazy(HAHA) but I feel someone can get something of use from me or out of me…. -
eddie says: Gemma,
As well , I want to point out my GI didnt treat for yeast( he would laugh)….I was told I had crohns with ulcer colitis — my first problem started — was gluten intolerance
My endo showed bad ulcers top, the rear, inflammation- problems and fistula. Antibodies toward crohns
The only reason , I began to look at yeast- was one hemorrhoids, two what my GI told me above. God bless him , he ment well. he ran everything he could.. I came back negative to all gluten tests. But he ran a test called HLA DQ disease association -being positive and also double the normal for AMCA– another test IBD expanded panel(which is usually not ran by most GI’s) I began to investigate and question things. I read into what HLA DQ was..
finding out my genes in HLA DQ2
If you look at all the immune suppressant drugs GI’s give– you see all of them cause fungal over growth. (they state this loudly every night when you watch TV from 5 to 8 pm. My first problem was gluten, and my stomach killed me when i ate it… later came milk and soy. Every one on my fathers side lives into there 90’s (german and Irish mix) looking at my mothers side…they all dropped dead from 58 to 68 (italian) all getting crohns / type 2 or colitis.
For me , i think – I was lucky and got to this early. stopping and reversing it. ( to me before the damage could be done) When you read , you can be intolerant (gluten) until you get the disease your then classified as celiac im sure if I took the drugs and did what they told me ,I d be sick and also fully have celiac and bad arthritis as well loosing parts of my bowel to crohns/ colitis. The drugs — they give you lower inflammation and turn off the immune systems reaction… and all the antibiotics they give then kill off what ever you had good bacteria wise….bringing up your bad levels. you already know this. Turning off the immune system your going to get fungal overgrowth. I know how crazy it may seem… but to me it seems –maybe the yeast open the barrier , and the bacteria get in. The monkeying around by the GI’s with antibotics then allow more bacteria to get in and infect. -
Duck Dodgers says: Excellent wording, Gemma (as usual).
Eddie, I agree about the preparations. I’m quite familiar with the traditional preparations. You know I love to research ancestral populations!
As for 90% gluten free, I don’t really consume grains at home. I’m a safe starch kinda guy. But, if I’m out of the house, with friends, I’ll eat whatever I want just to have fun. So, that’s all I meant by 90% falling off the wagon. I don’t seem to have any ill effects from the occasional treats, etc. Kresser refers to it as the 80/20 rule. I think it’s important to let loose every once in awhile.
Great conversation. I enjoyed it! -
eddie says: Duck,
thats about what I do now for gluten…beer etc following your LEAD!!!! Im lucky to have a bakery near by that does a real starter… so I will soon consume on a regular basis but not daily. the 80/20 is good you cant live in a BOX —- sucks for me- no source for real RAW milk where I live… -
Gemma says: @Eddie
The fungal wall beta glucan stimulate immune response but it is so complex. If your internal homeostasis was so much shifted towards inflammation, then any immune weapon you tried to use against the fungal pathogen might have been used against you. The fungi can control your immune system so well.
So it would make more sense to reduce the enemy size by washing it away (biofilm disruptors, lectin containing foods that bind the pathogens, garlic, clay, probiotics etc.) and try to calm it down, and only later on wake up and call your own immune system army for help.
Guerrilla war!
Which is probably what you did. I wonder if it could have been faster.
eddie says:
@Gemma
When I got sick….the first thing I did– was ask why my GI did not run vitamin deficiency checks
My iron was low, my vit d3 low… My first thing I did was find all vitamins free — of similar proteins/sugar as yeast… (free of soy, gluten, milk starch etc) Vit d3 is hard to find without SOY… same with probiotics — (renew life 50 billion or 80 billion.
I first started with LARGE DOSES of L-Glutamine (http://www.metagenics.com/mp/products/glutagenics) and Zinc-Carnosine (http://www.metagenics.com/mp/products/zinlori-75) I didnt do clay but added a good amount psyllium husk to scrap / flush out my system. ate LC (which we know trashes your bacteria good and bad– and can lower yeast ( until it changes and is able to use fat for food… I added in all the coconut oil, caplyric acid , grapefruit seed extract, olive leaf and neem, and other stuff rotating them.. As time went on I got SUPER MIGRAINES and dumped blobs of mucus and things.. I even had tiny stones in stool… I also at time would get rashes between my fingers… Hemorrhoids wents nuts (bleeding) then my fistula came… almost like I pushed everything low and out(the exit -rear)…. Now –im perfect, But as Ive spent time tracking documenting all this — while doing all this -Ive seem strange things happen and move– Ive taken photos of my hands, feet, nails , documented headaches , stool…. foods — removal of similar- proteins/sugars and watched as things dropped in testing –some controversial testsing which I dont argue some say is quackness ( for me I say alot of it isnt accurate- unless you removal similar foods sugars to and proteins simular to yeast/bacteria to what tests show high.
It has fully worked for me—not saying its for everyone. I know this thou ,I killed lowered yeast…I know I lowered my clostrida bacteria… I know I raised my lacto and bifido , (my lacto shows none now in all my testing but Im sure it stays high in my tract now)I ate lots of lacto things and my probiotics are high in lacto… I changed my colon PH and Im sure my ph has changed in the higher part of my my GI tract.
I know similar sugars /proteins had an effect -milk,soy,gluten and even starch
I used lots of garlic, many greens(vegetables) lots of inulin and fiber from veggies and from nuts..almonds, walnuts, hazel buts. Now I can tolerate and eat the gluten, starch and milk… But I regularly every couple months take things that lower yeast. I continue to add and mix many different types of bacteria– in probiotics to diversify my bacteria now . I havent used soil based probiotics but at some point will,. I know I ll never take a mold/yeast type antibiotic again in my life :)– with the great diversity of bacteria now in my gut , I dont think there will ever be a need for one in the future. And as duck says — the bacteria and PH keep the yeast in check …
eddie says:
Worked for me…..but I also took large doses of lacto 10 strains and 5 bifido strains while doing it
You wont find many good studies on probiotics while doing this because big pharma makes no money
Worked for me…..but I also took large doses of lacto 10 strains and 5 bifido strains while doing it
You wont find many good studies on probiotics while doing this because big pharma makes no money
Now post the other KEY Here…removel of simlar foods proteins/sugars hwp1 cassin and soy ..you may have forgot to look and post this
As well post what you find on candida and people dieing of cancer…it will alarm you many the few that the few that are cut open and c
Now post the other KEY Here…removel of simlar foods proteins/sugars hwp1 cassin and soy ..you may have forgot to look and post this
As well post what you find on candida and people dieing of cancer…it will alarm you many the few that the few that are cut open and c
As well post what you find on candida and people dieing of cancer…it will alarm you many the few that the few that are cut open and checked actually had fugal over growth and died die to the cancer drugs
Its proven that the cancer treatment usually people rise in fungus overgrowth. Many who take to many antibiotics get cancer ……and blood cancer
Please report back what you find on on hwp1 cassin and soy your missing my key point …remove food lc was only 1/4 of what it did I feel this part is highly important
Gemma says:
@Tinkerer
Do you still want to hear more about salivary alpha-amylase?
Yes, low copy number for AMY1 predisposes to obesity, see:
http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v46/n5/abs/ng.2939.html
But you also know that obese people have different gut flora composition. And people with various copy numbers for salivary AMY have distinct gut microbiota composition too.
Google this: “The Effect of Salivary Amylase Gene Copy Number on Gut Microbiota Composition and Function”, by A. C. Poole
(would be fun to see more research on that)
Eat more fiber and eat dirt or add some SBO and your gut flora composition will change and help you digesting starch even if your gene copy number for AMY1 is low.
For instance, have you ever heard of Bacillus Licheniformis, a soil bacterium, widely used by industry to produce amylases and other stuff? You can find it in probiotic supplements, e.g. BODY BIOTICS. (There are other bugs doing that too, of course).
Eat your dirt and feed your gut microbes with fiber. You will get balanced blood glucose and plenty of SCFAs in return.
Gemma says:
@Eddie
I was super interested in your mushroom eating experience during your UC healing route. In general, eating heat killed mushrooms provokes an immune response and therefore helps healing.
Would it be in your case a bit a too strong immune response, if you ate mushrooms in the acute phase? Was it helpful to decrease inflammation in other ways and reintroduce the immune provoking foods slowly?
So many questions.
I hope you can visit your wife’s country while it is still Lithuanian and Baltic and not Russian, and pick some delicacies! eddie says: Does someone know these starch genes??
Hla dq
Hla dr
Hla dp
Where they fall under id be interested in checking and dugging futher on me in this area
I have talked about the lab corp test ibd expanded panel some say this test is quack but used in stadard medicine for gi s testing 5 antibodies
Many say it is not acurate but I say due to simular proteins and sugars. Foods and bacteria etc can be broke out in each antibody. When my stomach failed I had high amca and alca ..if you look up both you can detect foods and simular proteins
Removing these foods my scores stayed high
I then attacked what I determined the bacteria and yeast types. My scores came down
Today bringing back in these foods you naturally see the scores have gone up ..but now hang in the safer higher safe range. The more simular foods I eat in proteins move me in the danger range .I test every 3 months .if I eat to much my numbers go to hig
I eat moderate they stay normal
Id be interested looking at the starch genes more your talking about . Duck Dodgers says: Eddie,
All this constant testing for antibodies, investigating Zonulin, talking with Eileen Laird, and looking at proteins/sugars that “confuse” the immune system suggests that you are dealing with an autoimmune condition, which (even according to the Zonulin link you posted above) suggests a specific combination of genetics and leaky gut issues.
If so, I’m genuinely curious why you suggest that all these highly-specific autoimmune issues (i.e. proteins/sugars “confusing” the immune system) apply to average people, who don’t have autoimmune issues?
eddie says:
Duck,
They seem to be good and benefit people in the fact they lower Clostrida species of bacteria — bad cdiff etc..
For me I determined from what I was doing high clostrida and HIGH yeasts.. It is said to eat hammer yeasts and also lower clostrida.. which in some maybe good .
For me in reading etc I found that S. Boulardii looks similar to bakers brewers yeast. Which would fall under ASCA (Saccharomyces )–anti-Saccharomyces cerevisiae antibodies
IgA /IgG antibodies. Now everyone believes in these etc but GI’s use this is one small tool in trying to help people. For me I had High AMCA –antimannobioside carbohydrate antibodies IgG antibodies (mannobioside)
This is what I have on —ASCA and AMCA
Intestinal yeast and ASCA+. Intestinal yeast infections are seen in malabsorptive diseases like coeliac disease. In Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis the presence of intestinal S. cerevisiae is rare, but the association with irritiable bowel in coeliac disease remains unstudied.[13]
Anti-Saccharomyces cerevisiae antibodies (ASCA), along with perinuclear antineutrophil cytoplasmic antibodies (pANCA), are among the two most useful and often discriminating markers for colitis.[1] ASCA tends to recognize Crohn’s disease more frequently, whereas pANCA tend to recognize ulcerative colitis.[
ASCA antibodies react to the following yeast proteins
Mannans[3]
200 kDA glycoprotein
Anti-mannans
Mannan (oligomannin) is a component of the yeast cell wall. Antibodies to yeast mannans are found at increased frequency in Crohn’s disease and ASCA+ Crohn’s tend to have lower low levels of mannan-binding lectin.[14] Experimentally, antibodies to mannans from yeast can also crossreact to mannans of other types of yeast.[15] Study of the sugars indicated that a mannotetraose (4-mer) was responsible for highest response. [16] Studies of the 200 kDa glycoprotein antibodies found them commonly in healthy people, suggesting that the disease associated antibodies are to their carbohydrate moieties.[17] Mannans from other yeast, for example candida albicans, have found to cross react with ASCA which suggests that other yeast may induce ASCA associated diseases.
Mannan-binding lectin (MBL) is a lectin produced by humans. In ASCA+ Crohn’s disease the serum level of this protein is lower. Cellular response to mannan in ASCA+ peripheral blood lymphocytes could be inhibited by adding MBL, however, a high frequency of mutations in the MBL gene was found in ASCA+ patients.[18]
(Saccharomyces cerevisiae) of all antibody types (IgA, IgG, and IgM)
yeast cell wall material–that is, mannan, or some antigen rich in mannose and cross reacting with mannan, may play an aetiological role in Crohn’s disease, but not in ulcerative colitis. The increases in IgA and IgM, as well as IgG suggest that local and systemic immune systems are selectively activated by antigen(s) present in the cell wall of baker’s yeast.
Now for me personally — I seem to seem a problem with Gluten Sensitivity and Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast— so for me when I removed all the similar things, I didnt feel strange etc.. At times After having the milk,soy,and grains out of my diet ,and even starch I felt strange when I ate them. My only guess was Gluten Sensitivity and Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast. So I was scared to introduce the “beneficial” yeasts S. Boulardii .(Im not saying its BAD for you…its proven to be good. Now I dont get elevated ASCA antibodies and which from what I read yeasts S. Boulardii . would fall under this…I would suspect I maybe ok…if I took or take now.. but since I noticed Gluten Sensitivity and Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast I just didnt go there. I figured I could still work on myself with out it.
Just me personally well ,I have read and dug deep , I always see pretty much everyone with an auto immune disease if there tested seem to be high to AMCA or ASCA. Now that could be just from the amount of foods with yeast in it… or maybe the yeast it self.. why I personally removed all yeasts and foods with Gluten and Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast to see if these would go down. ( AMCA in my case) when I removed all the mannose type foods my AMCA stayed high… until I took things to lower yeast , my first supplements then asking my doc for Diflucan. Foods high in mannose –Vegetables are also a good source of mannose.
High levels of mannose are found in black currants, red currants, gooseberries, cranberries, cranberry juice, tomatoes, apples, peaches, oranges and blueberriess green beans, Avacado ,cabbage, broccoli, eggplant, turnip, green coffee beans, shiitake mushrooms and kelp. Mannose is also found in carob gum, the gum extracted from the carob plant, and in guar gum, the fiber from the seed of the guar plant. In the guar gum and carob plant, mannose is in the form of galactomannan, which are polymers of mannose and galactose.
I removed all these foods and It stayed high.. also removed all Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast (milk, soy and gluten) after lowering this ( for me I personally think candida) my number dropped –attacking candida.
Now today , I drink coffee (latte) every morning with almond milk with guar gum(Silk brand) and now eat lots of sauerkraut and avacados. MY AMCA has up ticked to the boarder range on — what the test says POSTIVE
but I dont feel any ill effects — For me I know one of two things I have a YEAST (candida problem) well I did –its gone , but I may also have a binding problem with mannose and my immune system crashes from Cross Reactive Proteins of foods and yeast( maybe my problem and how my gluten genes (HLA DQ2 fit in the puzzle) maybe my defect
— right now im upping and upping my mannose foods for the most part (excluding milk, gluten and soy cross reactive to yeast- simular to candida( Recombinant proteins produced in yeast may be subject to mannose ) to see if I get sick… time will tell as every 3 to 4 months I draw blood for this test.
I know with the mannose low or in the safe line of the test—I can eat gluten milk etc –because it doesnt bug me. Now when The number is up will see what happens.
Me personally , as long as the yeast are low -I dont think the number matters what it is. and Why the testing is so bad and not accurate for people( it think the Cross Reactive of the yeasts screwing it up) then causing the gut to attack open and leak — in my case my gut
Gemma says:
@Eddie
I have recently learned from Dr. Ayers who is really a great expert on fungal cell walls that mannans are used by yeasts to mask themselves, so that they can enter the cells easier. The immune system and the cells do not see them as dangerous because there is a built in tolerance to mannosides.
If the fungal wall cells are treated then the pathogen is exposed and the body and the immune system finally recognizes them. That is why I have asked brought the idea to eat killed fungi.
But, mannose rich foods should be rather beneficial, not harmful.
Though in case of fungal overgrowth they might mask immune response and make matters worse in long term. The pathogen would use the chance to enter unnoticed.
I hope I am interpreting it right, I was quoting from memory now…
But this idea is more important. Do you remember our discussion on FUT2?
And just a thought now, because there was a connection of FUT2 deficiency to these inflammatory diseases. Reading on ASCA now:
“Mannan (oligomannin) is a component of the yeast cell wall. Antibodies to yeast mannans are found at increased frequency in Crohn’s disease and ASCA+ Crohn’s tend to have lower low levels of mannan-binding lectin.”
Have you taken the test, do you know your FUT2 status?
If your body cannot make these mannan binding lectins, you have to eat lectin and mannose rich foods so that gut bugs can make it for you. D-mannose is source of L-fucose. Lectin rich foods? Beans, for instance. Do you eat beans and legumes? eddie says: Gemma,
Thx , I understand all of what your saying — my whole argument too, is almost all auto immune diseases— arthritus , type 2 , crohns celiac etc people have high ASCA or AMCA and I think from playing around in my case — there looking in the wrong place (bacteria) when the problem starts with yeast and flourishes as bacteria( again just my thought) just an idea.
My ASCA is always low per the IBD expanded panel (from labcorp# 162045 )
BELOW 0 – 60 0-100 0- 50 0-90 RANGES ARE NORMAL
March 2012
ALCA 64 0-60 POSITIVE “negative less 45, Equivocal 45-50, Positive over 60”
AMCA 204 0-100 POSITIVE “negative less 90, Equivocal 90-100, Positive over 100”
gASCA 13 0-50 Negative
ACCA 58 0-90 Negative
pANCA tieter
____________________________________________________________________________________Oct 2012
ALCA 40 0-60 Negative
AMCA 184 0-100 POISITVE “negative less 90, Equivocal 90-100, Positive over 100”
gASCA 14 0-50 Negative
ACCA 23 0-90 Negative
pANCA Negative
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Feb 2013
ALCA 36 0-60 Negative
AMCA 99 0-100 EQUIVOCAL “negative less 90 , Equivocal 90-100, Positive over 100”
gASCA 21 0-50 Negative
ACCA 16 0-90 Negative
pANCA Negative
____________________________________________________________________________________
May 2013 NEGATIVE FOR ALL
ALCA 35 0-60 Negative
AMCA 74 0-100 Negative
gASCA 13 0-50 Negative
ACCA 16 0-90 Negative
pANCA Negative
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Sept 2013 NEGATIVE FOR ALL
ALCA 23 0-60 Negative
AMCA 58 0-100 Negative
gASCA 11 0-50 Negative
ACCA 18 0-90 Negative
pANCA Negative
DEC 2013 NEGATIVE FOR ALL
ALCA 37 0-60 Negative
AMCA 74 0-100 Negative
gASCA 11 0-50 Negative
ACCA 16 0-90 Negative
pANCA Negative
April 2014 Negative for all
ALCA 41 0-60 negative
AMCA 85 0-100 Negative
gASCA 2 0- 50 Negative
ACCA 23 0-90 negative
pANCA Negative
After I cleared out the yeast , foods have raised the AMCA — what I have for mannons are
igh levels of mannose are found in black currants, red currants, gooseberries, cranberries, cranberry juice, tomatoes, apples, peaches, oranges and blueberriess green beans, Avacado ,cabbage, broccoli, eggplant, turnip, green coffee beans, shiitake mushrooms and kelp. Mannose is also found in carob gum, the gum extracted from the carob plant, and in guar gum, the fiber from the seed of the guar plant.
I didnt eat starch for almost 2 years except nuts (almonds and walnuts) due to the fact when I ate it I got joint pain or a bloody nose at time eating potatos. didnt feel right eating gluten or milk and soy.. All my crazy non standarded tests seem to back this up.
I havent taken the FUT2 test but plan on doing 23andme to get the raw data –im guessing Ill find this in there???
I plan on doing this test next month MANNOSE_BLINDING LECTIN (MBL) labcorp test# 004900 check it out on there web site. I know I sound like a repeat record..but I think depending on how many HLA DQ2 gluten genes you have may are pre disposed to gut problems — to milk, soy, gluten and starch because of yeast looking like (Cross Reactive Proteins /sugars ) with mannon being so close to yeast. Docs and 90 percent of the scientists arent looking at yeast- but zoom in on bacteria. Im sure the loss of bacteria gives you yeast overgrowth or the overgrowth of yeast from a party life style or bad food choices or too many antibiotics.
I dont do beans or legumes but as of last month i have been eating some once a week- a potato and some plantain chips… sinus are still fine , no joint pain , no weird feelings.
I personally think , I got over the yeast… and my immune system has reset and It is now able to pick apart the mannon foods ( list I have) from the yeast. Above in April 2014 you ll see the antibodies are climbing.. I drink a good amount of almond milk with sun flower lecthin and guar gum. I also eat sauerkraut with my breakfast every day.
I test again in late sept for
ASCA
ALCA
ACCA
AMCA
this might be a fluke— but it has been working ???????????????????????? and I have zero gluten issues or milk problems now. Im still testing and playing with starch. so far it appearing I can eat almost anything ..Im wondering what my IBD PANEL WILL SHOW IN SEPT??
But since all this happen , my sinus drained out cleared out with the help of grapefruitseed extract, coconut oil, and olive leaf spray.. Ive had no sinus issues Ive had all my life or snoring as well free or weather changing (migraines) ???? odd isnt it.
Another factor , I feel is its in your nose and when you lay down your sinus drain into your gut while sleeping (RE infecting you) another reason its so hard to get out of the circle. I treated my nose and sinus as hard as my gut.
I spoken that a clear yellow bio film fell out of my ear last year.. Even after a basic check up from the ENT —I put tea tree/grapefruit seed extract in my ear for like 7 month as well 2 months of coconut oil…
As a kid I had lots of ear wax…. no problems or ear infections ever
Gemma says:
@Eddie
You are perfectly clear now
It is obvious from your tests that when your pathogenic yeasts went down, your antibodies against them went down too.
It makes very much sense what you are implying that the inflammation leading to these “autoimmune” diseases is caused by BOTH fungi and bacteria.
23and me will tell you about FUT2. I was not implying that FUT2 has to do with your condition. You may have the other genes mutated: MBL.
Google this: “Mannose-binding lectin: biology and clinical implications”
“The innate host defence molecule mannose-binding lectin (MBL) has attracted great interest as a potential candidate for passive immunotherapy to prevent infection. MBL is a multimeric lectin that recognizes a wide array of pathogens independently of specific antibody, and initiates the lectin pathway of complement activation.
MBL2 coding alleles associated with low blood levels are present in up to 40% of Caucasoids, with up to 8% having genotypes associated with profound reduction in circulating MBL levels. Low-producing MBL2 variants and low MBL levels are associated with increased susceptibility to and severity of a variety of infective illnesses, particularly when immunity is already compromised – for example, in infants and young children, patients with cystic fibrosis, and after chemotherapy and transplantation.
These observations suggest that administration of recombinant or purified MBL may be of benefit in clinical settings where MBL deficiency is associated with a high burden of infection.”
Hence my original thought: there are some foods FULL of such lectins that might help to catch the pathogens.
To have both FUT2 and MBL deficiency would probably not be a very good genetic constellation.
Can the right diet and healthy microbiome help overcome that? Gemma says: @Eddie
On mannan binding lectins from foods. Forget beans for the moment.
You ate a lot of garlic, didn’t you?
eddie says:
Gemma,
Im 2.5 years in I ate no starch except walnuts and almonds… removed all mannose foods yeast ..gluten and simular proteins for 2 years as well killing yeast
I only added in gluten randomly in the last 6 months same with cheese some sour cream etc no problems randomly adding in some start now plantain chips …bake potato and now and then beans…in ny for weekend drinking beer from Lithuania with live yeast and having chili –beans
With the yeast low and in check..seems there no problem 1.5 years ago I would have joint pain at time with starch nose bleeds and milk gluten stomach distress…
Im nnot going crazy but will test drinking a good amount of beer for the holiday weekend.
Sept I will test my amca and other 4 antibodies again as well the other test mlb as well 23and me
I still feel if yeast candida is low the problem is in check
eddie says:
Gemma
I ate lots of inulin..garlic..onions and asparagus
Everyday one of the 3…I personally
feel akkermansia bacteria plays a role some how In this process with yeast… Gemma says: @Eddie
Thanks a lot for answering my questions.
Your story definitely deserves a lot of attention!
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmtim steele
- "does it (the onion or garlic) need to be consumed raw to get the benefits?"
I think rotating both methods would be better, as heat can destroys some enzymes.
There are many traditional ways that help provoking the create and release of the protective compounds we are after.
If you eat the plant part very fresh, as it is, you may miss some, as they are simply not there. Only a stressed plant starts creating the protective compound as it thinks it was attacked by en enemy.
So for instance garlic releases its enzymes after is has been crushed and mixed with some salt, and left sitting for some 15 minutes. The cell walls are damaged, enzymes released. It tastes even better like this than completely fresh.
A nice, traditional recipe to include garlic: Aioli (raw garlic, egg yolk, olive oil, lemon juice, salt). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aioli
Gemma, since enzymes are protein and made of amino acids, wouldn't stomach acid and enzymes degrade ingested enzymes anyway? Isn't this why pancreatic type enzyme supps are encased in (brain fart time....) stuff that doesn't dissolve in the stomach but does dissolve in the duodenum?
Gabriella, you asked :-)Reply
Garlic clove DOES NOT WANT to be eaten, therefore up-regulates its defense when attacked by such a brute force. It tries to cause harm even after it is eaten.
The list of beneficial compounds is very long, many still unexplored and the effects not explained. Garlic was proven IN VIVO to be anti-bacterial, antiviral, anti-fungal, anti-cancer, anti-parasitic, anti-inflammatory, even anti-wrinkle :-)
Therapeutic Uses and Pharmacological Properties of Garlic, Shallot, and Their Biologically Active Compounds
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3874089/
and here we have the anti-wrinkle effect:
Anti-wrinkle and anti-inflammatory effects of active garlic components and the inhibition of MMPs via NF-κB signaling.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3774756/
AnonymousSeptember 7, 2014 at 11:45 PMwhile i was looking at Amazon reviews i saw this excellent 14 pg protocol for SIBO and Candida. they say it would also work for leaky gut.
Hope its ok to post, i think many folks would find it useful and they seem to have covered all the bases from l-glutamine to chlorinated water to fermented foods and on and on. Kind of depressing to think that it may take all the things that they recommend to cure the gut because i dont think i can afford them all.
i was hoping prescript assist and the 2 other probiotics along with some RS and sauerkraut would do the trick but i kind of doubt it now. :(
http://bit.ly/antisibo
by John Herron and Laura Christenson Barker
"Candida, a yeast, can hide INSIDE macrophage"
If only that!
Let us visit a fungi lab, and see a video included in the paper (at time mark 8 min or so you can see the phagocytosis and hyphal grow of the fungal cell resulting in macrophage killing)
Live-cell Video Microscopy of Fungal Pathogen Phagocytosis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3582652/
Some more thriller reading here:
The Pathogen Candida albicans Hijacks Pyroptosis for Escape from Macrophages
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3977349/
Catching Fire: Candida albicans, Macrophages, and Pyroptosis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4072798/Or some herbal extracts, some herbs even kill cancer cells.
The effects of β-glucan on human immune and cancer cells
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2704234/
"Non-prescriptional use of medicinal herbs among cancer patients is common around the world. The alleged anti-cancer effects of most herbal extracts are mainly based on studies derived from in vitro or in vivo animal experiments. The current information suggests that these herbal extracts exert their biological effect either through cytotoxic or immunomodulatory mechanisms. One of the active compounds responsible for the immune effects of herbal products is in the form of complex polysaccharides known as β-glucans. β-glucans are ubiquitously found in both bacterial or fungal cell walls and have been implicated in the initiation of anti-microbial immune response. Based on in vitro studies, β-glucans act on several immune receptors including Dectin-1, complement receptor (CR3) and TLR-2/6 and trigger a group of immune cells including macrophages, neutrophils, monocytes, natural killer cells and dendritic cells. As a consequence, both innate and adaptive response can be modulated by β-glucans and they can also enhance opsonic and non-opsonic phagocytosis."How can inulin help in removing Candida? It stimulates phagocytosis.. of anything...
Inulin stimulates phagocytosis of PMA-treated THP-1 macrophages by involvement of PI3-kinases and MAP kinases.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22038771
"Inulin is a polysaccharide that enhances various immune responses, mainly to T and B cells, natural killer cells, and macrophages in vivo and in vitro. Previous reports describe that inulin activates macrophages indirectly by affecting the alternative complement pathway. In this study, we examined the direct effect of inulin on PMA-treated THP-1 macrophages. Inulin treatment did not stimulate the proliferation of THP-1 macrophages at all. However, inulin treatment significantly increased phagocytosis of the polystyrene beads without the influence of serum. Doses of around 1 mg/mL had the maximal effect, and significant progression of phagocytosis occurred at times treated over 6 h. Inulin augmented phagocytosis not only with polystyrene beads but also with apoptotic cancer cells. The inulin-induced phagocytosis uptake was suppressed in Toll-like receptor (TLR) 4 mutated C3H/HeJ mice peritoneal macrophages. Moreover, inulin-induced THP-1 macrophage TNF-α secretion was inhibited using a blocking antibody specific to TLR4, suggesting that TLR4 is involved in the binding of inulin to macrophages. Furthermore, we used specific kinase inhibitors to assess the involvement of inulin-induced phagocytosis and revealed that phosphoinositide 3-kinase and mitogen-activated protein kinase, especially p38, participated in phagocytosis. These results suggest that inulin affects macrophages directly by involving the TLR4 signaling pathway and stimulating phagocytosis for enhancing immunomodulation."
Now I would really like to address INULIN a bit more.
I have noticed it is VERY important in people with previous yeast issues, and my big question is if inulin/inulin rich foods are enough and if more continuous "weeding" is needed.
The aim would be to drive the pathgenic-turned yeast back into their commensal form, and not into hiding elsewhere. One of their favourite hiding places are macrophages. Many pathogens use them too, to SURVIVE, see:
Sleeping with the Enemy: How Intracellular Pathogens Cope with a Macrophage Lifestyle
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3310772/
"Intracellular pathogens are a major cause of global morbidity and mortality. While this alone establishes their medical importance, they are also a focus of special interest because of their unique lifestyles. Many of these organisms have evolved to reside within the hostile environment of macrophages. Given that these innate immune effector cells are normally programmed to destroy ingested prey and promote the development of adaptive immunity, this is one of the ultimate paradoxes in the study of host–pathogen interactions. The success of these microbes is dependent on diverse strategies including the disruption of macrophage cell regulation, the ability to nullify macrophage microbicidal effector mechanisms, and other special adaptations to an intracellular lifestyle. Here, we review a series of well established survival paradigms that have emerged that illustrate this behaviour."The big ones are Birch Boletes, or Porcini's--very good and healthy:
Boletus edulis fruit bodies contain about 500 mg of ergosterol per 100 g of dried mushroom.[128] Ergosterol is a sterol compound common in fungi. "Additionally, the fruit bodies have about 30 mg of ergosterol peroxide per 100 g of dried mushroom. Ergosterol peroxide is a steroid derivative with a wide spectrum of biological activity, including antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory activity, and cytotoxicity to various tumor cell lines grown in laboratory culture."
The little ones are Chanterelles, one of the most prized anywhere:
"Chanterelles are relatively high in vitamin C (0.4 mg/g fresh weight),[9] very high in potassium (about 0.5%, fresh weight),[10] and among the richest sources of vitamin D known, with ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as high as 212 IU/100 grams fresh weight.[10] Scientific research has suggested that the golden chanterelle may have potent insecticidal properties that are harmless to humans and yet protect the mushroom body against insects and other potentially harmful organisms." (wikipedia)
I hope you have lost your fear of fungi, dude!
